Exclusive: Drew Massey Talks The Barbarian and the Troll

Nickelodeon has enjoyed its modest success off of their latest puppet comedy series, The Barbarian and the Troll.  The show, which centers on a barbarian warrior going on a dangerous quest, offers plenty of puppet charm, visuals, and comedy that’ll impress any fan of family-friendly puppet shows like Muppets and Sesame Street.  With any luck, it might even delight certain fans of the fantasy genre.  I took the opportunity to talk to the show’s co-creator and the voice of Evan, Drew Massey, a professional puppeteer.  I spoke to him about Nickelodeon’s newest series as well as his puppetry skills presented in his other movies and shows.

Marcus: First off, I want to say congrats on The Barbarian and the Troll.  As someone who grew up with the Muppets, I really enjoyed what I saw.

Drew: Great, I’m glad.  Yeah, I grew up with the Muppets too.  They were definitely an inspiration for what we did there.

Marcus: What inspired you and Mike Mitchell to make a series like this?

Drew: Well, the number of things that inspired us, number one, as I mentioned the Muppets were hugely inspirational to both of us.  We also both really love fantasy movies, and we love puppets.  We met for the first time on a public project that he was doing for ABC, and so we knew we share the love for all things puppets back then.  We kept running across each other because I kept doing public projects and he kept doing other projects.  And so eventually it was…I don’t want to say it was inevitable, but you know, things were heading that way for many years.  It was just kind of circling each other, and eventually, I’m glad it came together and we were able to do this project together.  It was really fruitful collaboration, and he and I are very much aligned creativity and taste-wise, which made it a lot easier.  

Marcus: So seeing that it’s a puppet show with live-action backgrounds, what was the shooting process like for you and the crew during the pandemic days?

Drew: Well, the shooting process was pretty similar to the normal shooting process except for the fact that we got tested for COVID three times a week.  We wore masks most of the time, there was a lot of social distancing, and nobody could visit the set, which was a little frustrating because we would have loved to have had guests to see what we were doing but it was all behind closed doors and nobody could come in and look at the fruits of our labor as we were making the show, which is pretty unusual.  Normally we invite people by to see what we’re doing and it’s a lot of fun because most people don’t know what it takes to put on a puppet production and they come in and they see the set built up off of the floor so that the puppeteers can all stand while they do their work and they’re like, “Well, that’s interesting”, and then they see all the monitors.  There’s a lot to putting on a public show that most people aren’t familiar with, so we couldn’t share any of that, which was a bit of a shame, especially with all the amazing craftsmanship that went into what we did.  The puppets were fantastic.  The sets were amazing.  It’s just slightly lamentable that we were the only ones to get to witness that firsthand.

Marcus: I see.  So, in addition to being a co-creator, co-writer, and executive producer of Barbarian and the Troll, you also provided the puppetry and voice for Evan, the troll prince with a dream.  What did you like about this character?

Drew: Well, I liked that he’s so positive all the time.  I think he’s a good role model in that respect, and I like that he’s also brave.  You know, he’s terrified of everything, but he’s very driven to experience the world, and to get out of the rut that he’s in.  I think there’s a lot to like about Evan.

Marcus: Well, based on what I saw, I did happen to like Evan as a character as well because of his traits.

Drew: Well, that was the goal: to give kind of a nice grounded relatable character.  Every tool that people would respond to at the center of it.  And it was interesting because they added the troll to the title, which I didn’t originally feel that it needed because Brendar was really the catalyst that sets him off on his journey, and meeting her, and their friendship.  But they felt that it was good to add our everyman character to the title, which in retrospect I think was a good choice.

Marcus: You also provided some puppetry in other projects like Greg the Bunny and Earth to Ned.  What made you decide to get into puppetry in the first place?

Drew: Well, I sort of found it by accident.  A very good friend of mine from my hometown named Michael Earl got me into puppetry.  He, after high school, went to New York and joined Jim Henson and the Muppets, and we stayed in touch for many years after I went to school.  He’s the one who really introduced me to the people who would define my career like Kevin Clash, and he even introduced me to Jim Henson at one point, which I thought was pretty amazing.

Marcus: Yeah, Jim Henson sounded like a pretty great guy and a genius.

Drew: I would have loved to have gotten to know him.  Luckily, I know a lot of people who didn’t know him so I’ve heard a lot of stories, and I feel like I get kind of a sense of what it was like to work with him.  But it is a shame that he passed away too early because I definitely would have liked to have worked with him directly.

Marcus: Your website says that you’re a puppeteer, VoiceOver Actor, and an all-around creative guy.  Which do you enjoy doing more?

Drew: Well, I think it all is rolled into one.  I describe myself as a creative catalyst, which means that if I can’t do something cool and creative myself, I’m hoping that at least I can inspire somebody else to do something that fulfills them and others.  So, one way or another, I think art and did definitely like to help people do their art, and for me to do mine, and I like when it all comes together so I don’t really view those things as separate disciplines necessarily, and I don’t necessarily enjoy one more than the other.  I like it all.

Marcus: I think that’s also important to enjoy more stuff than only just one.

Drew: Yeah, that’s what keeps me going.  I’m a compulsive creator.  So I like to describe myself as well like it’s…I can’t really do anything else.  I mean, I’m sure, even if I had, you know, a job, and I’ve heard about people like this.  People have jobs, doing the same thing day in and day out, like if you’re, say, a bridge toll taker, you know, which sort of fits into Evan the troll a lot in life.  But even if I were on the Golden Gate Bridge taking a toll, you know, I would have 50 music playing and have posters up around, I’d probably be painting at the same time.  I likely wouldn’t have that job very long because I’d be fired for doing all sorts of other stuff.  However, everyone who cracks through my bridge would hopefully be how fulfilled I was and be inspired by it somehow, and I think that’s the point.

Marcus: Nice.  What has been your favorite character to play in the puppetry and voice acting business so far?

Drew: Well, Evan is up there.  I like Evan because I don’t overthink him.  I just kind of put him on and go.  Put the puppet on that is.  There are some other roles that I’ve had that have taken a lot of energy, kind of figuring out what they are, who they are, and where they need to go in a script.  One of the other good things too is that I helped write the script and create the show so I was very very very familiar with his personality from the get-go, which made things a lot easier.  I really liked playing the Science Kid.  He was originally described as a junior Seinfeld, which I thought was a hilarious and great jumping-off point for a kid science show, and that’s how I approached it.  But he was sort of delivering science concepts in a stand-up comic sort of way for kids.  I just thought that was a really fun take of it.  And thirdly, I really enjoyed playing Stuff on Mutt & Stuff because he was just a big dumb dog, and he’s, I think the dumbest character I’ve ever played.  Well, hold on.  No, they were chickens in Foster Farms chicken commercial theories.  That may have been the dumbest character, but I really enjoyed playing Stuff because Meegan Godfrey, who was in the suit, added so much and I described her as the Lucille Bell is to work.  She was just so funny, and we would inspire each other all the time.  That, and (Miss Eurocis?).  The design’s good.  She was really fun to work with too.  I think I like collaborative arts.  I think I like Sid and Stuff because they were collaborative, and Evan because he’s very much me.

Marcus: Sounds like you are having fun playing those characters that you really love.

Drew: Oh, for sure.  There is very little to complain about in my career.  It’s a lot of laughs and fun.  I mean, it is hard work at the end of the day.  I do come home exhausted, sometimes mentally and physically because holding my arm up in the air for so long is definitely a challenge.  But, well, and especially when I have really heavy puppets like the dragon in The Barbarian and the Troll.  I don’t know how heavy he was, but I had to wear a backpack to support the puppet.  He was a bit of a beast, figuratively and literally.  But yeah, I really really enjoy what I do, and I hope that comes across.

Marcus: And sometimes, the hard work really pays off in the end.

Drew: Oh absolutely, it’s all worth it.  I think it’s such a thrill to be able to create a performance and have it recorded.  I like (???) too, but I love the fact that I can, you know, suffer for a comparatively short amount of time, get something on film, and have it live forever as long as people keep watching. 

Marcus: If you ever meet someone who plans on approaching puppetry as a career, what’s the best advice you can give them?

Drew: Acting.  That’s really it.  I’ve seen a lot of people come through with amazing manipulation skills, but their acting chops aren’t great, and that’s always the defining factor for me.  If you can create a complete character with a soul and personality, then I think you’ve got a really good shot.  But otherwise, you know, it’s just eye candy and sometimes that is enough.  But I think people want more out of puppets.  I always point to the fact that Jim Henson and Frank Oz above all were really good actors, and they played off each other really well.  They were great actors, they’re great improvisers.  And then on top of that, they were great manipulators, but, I think, first and foremost puppeteers are actors with a special skill.  So, definitely manipulation is important.  It’s all important, but acting is number one.

Marcus: Similar to what you did with your character Evan.  Your voice was really unrecognizable when you’re voicing Evan.

Drew: Oh, great.  Well, that’s good.  I would hate to sound like it’s natural at all times.  It would make a weird experience at the drive-thru.

Marcus: Oh yeah, I can definitely see that.  Going back to the show, what do you believe your first-time viewers will get out of watching The Barbarian and the Troll?

Drew: Well, I hope, first and foremost, they have fun.  I think at least for me, there’s real value to escapist fantasy, and I like going to different worlds and being in different places with different people and creatures and characters.  So I hope we’ve done a good job of building that world so that people can escape to Gothmoria whenever they watch the show, and you know, really sort of forget what’s going on around them and be immersed in this really fun public fantasy world.

Marcus: Well, I do feel that this is one of the best shows that Nickelodeon had to offer recently.

Drew: Oh, nice.  That’s high praise.  They’ve got some good stuff on.

Marcus: Yeah, it’s a lot of fun.  It’s got some good messages for the kids.  What’s not to love?

Drew: Well, you know, that’s what we tried to do is make a show with all of the unlovable parts taken out, though.  Here experience and watching it.  Yeah, I am so gratified that Nickelodeon gave us the opportunity to make this show.  I was really happy that they wanted to make it themselves.  A lot of times people will take a show and try to sell it elsewhere, but they were really committed to the project from day one, and really took that leap of faith in creating it and pitching it.  Mike and I were asked for examples of something like it, and everything we came up with was either too serious or too creaturely or not cinematic and not dramatic enough.  So I feel like the fact that they trusted us to establish and maintain a tone that really rides the line between kid and adult.  I feel like that their trust in that is kind of miraculous in a great thing that both Mike and I really appreciate.  And you know, what we really tried to do is basically make a long fantasy movie for kids and adults like we wanted to make sure everybody can enjoy it.  But you know that was the goal.  I was on a show called Angel several years back, and that was my epiphany moment when I saw the bit.  I did an episode called “Smile Time” where Angel gets turned into a puppet, and in looking at it, I realized like, wow, if you put puppets in front of really good cameras with professional lighting and in really expensive lenses, they look amazing.  And I thought, yeah, we have to do a whole show like this because again, it blew my mind.  I don’t know if anybody else will be on board, but I want to see that.  So I was really happy that Mike had the exact same compulsion basically to create something like this.

Marcus: Well, he did direct some other animated films like The Lego Movie 2 and Trolls.

Drew: Yeah, definitely, and he’s a great director which certainly helps.  But, I mean, but he’ll be the first one to tell you that animation and puppets are very very different animals when it comes to putting them together and shooting them.  So it’s a very different look.  It’s a very different process.  I’m just really happy that he likes puppets so much and sort of had the same dream that I did.

Marcus: Well, I’m just as happy as you are.

Drew: Well, good. That makes me even happier. (Laughs)

Marcus: So if you and Mitchell were given the opportunity to make a season two, are there any specific ideas you’d like to use regarding the show’s stories and characters?

Drew: Tons of them, but I can’t reveal them yet.  You’re just gonna have to see season two.  Now, if they don’t make a season two, then you know, we’ll tell you what our plans were, and everybody can be sad that it didn’t happen.

Marcus: Well, the end of the season one finale did tease us of a possible season two.

Drew: Absolutely.

Marcus: So if that happens, I’m more than willing to see what happens next.

Drew: Great.  I’m glad.  Yes, stay tuned because there’s a lot more of our Barbarian and the Troll characters to do.  Plus our owl and our wizard and our skeleton army general and some other villains may make a return that day.  Who knows, I don’t know.  We’ll see.  We haven’t written it yet, but we do have plans.

Marcus: Well, I hope those plans come into effect pretty soon.

Drew: Thanks.  Me too.  We’re all just sitting around waiting for them to give us the green light.  But once they do, we will leap into action and start fleshing it…well, actually we already started fleshing it out, but we will actually sit down and write scripts and start building things, which is very exciting.

Marcus: Excellent.