The Big World of Adult Swim Smalls – Sean Godsey and Nic Collins on ‘Thoron the Conqueror’

Adult Swim remains one of the greatest arbiters of animated talent and it’s always exciting when they’re able to apply that passion to those that truly are in need of it. Adult Swim’s “Smalls” initiative has been around for years and in that time it’s introduced audiences to dozens of avante-garde animators and storytellers through bite-sized cartoons and surreal snapshots. 2023 is a bit year for Adult Swim’s “Smalls” and every Saturday marks the debut of a new animated short in this unique curation project. 

This week’s addition to “Smalls,” Thoron the Conqueror, explores a freelance intergalactic warrior with misguided delusions of grandeur. Thoron comes from Sean Godsey and Nic Collins, an animation and director duo, who hold heavy reverence for both Adult Swim and gonzo comedy. To celebrate the premiere of Thoron the Conqueror, Sean Godsey and Nic Collins get candid on Thoron’s unique genesis, the influence of Conan the Barbarian comics and the joy of doing a sword-and-sandal epic in space, and what lies ahead for Thoron’s future and a possibly expanded universe.

 

Daniel Kurland: You both have a history in animation, but how did you initially get involved with Adult Swim’s “Smalls” project?

Sean Godsey: Yeah, it was a program that we were aware of and Nic had pitched something to them before, so he still had their contact info. “Smalls” was like an open submission thing at the time–I’m not sure if it still is–but anyone was open to submitting content. Thoron was something that we had made in the past–we did these three one-minute shorts and only about a minute of content from any of that made it into the finished Adult Swim project. We made these shorts, then we saw the “Smalls” program, and it just made sense to submit for it. It seemed like it would work so we made a pitch document, submitted those shorts, and then they liked it all.

Daniel Kurland: Yeah, I was going to ask if the whole Thoron concept was something that you two have had for a while now or if it was a more recent development, but it seems like it was the former?

Sean Godsey: Yeah, exactly. It’s actually very loosely based on a short that I made, and Nic worked on, maybe ten years ago called Bright, Bright Space. It was a thing that has live-action backgrounds, but animated characters. I’m an animator and Nic is more of a live-action director, writer, and editor. So he shot all of the backgrounds and did a few voices for side characters. So Thoron came from this collaborative place of the past. 

Basically, what happened is that we got into SXSW with this live-action project called Beached. Nic directed it, we wrote it together, and I’m kind of the lead. I’m this preacher character who’s in four hours’ worth of make-up. But then COVID happened and we were involved in the “COVID SXSW,” so we were left with this unresolved feeling of still wanting to make stuff. We still had this momentum going, you know? We made the Thoron shorts just as a way to stay busy. We were originally going to put them online, but then we showed them to a producer friend who thought that it was something worth pitching. So this project is weirdly kind of born out of COVID and the need to create. We couldn’t get together with anyone, but we could make this.

Daniel Kurland: There’s a really unique animation style that’s used in Thoron. Is this your preferred medium, or did you consider different animation styles?

Sean Godsey: Yeah, it’s all 3D, but the mouth and eyes are 2D. That comes from me being a 2D artist, but slowly dipping my toes more and more into 3D. Thoron is almost completely in 3D. It was almost a way to do a more involved 3D project. Nic is such a talented live-action director, which made this the perfect medium to collaborate on. He can bring all of his live-action directing experience into 3D pretty easily because 3D still has a set, a camera–it’s all digital, but the filmmaking rules are largely the same. Nic even helped take charge when we were doing a lighting pass on it all. 3D really lent itself to Nic and I working together in a coherent way.

Daniel Kurland: There are such distinct designs for Thoron and the rest of the series’ aliens and monsters. How did those designs come together and what were the influences there? There’s almost a bit of a PlayStation and Nintendo 64 aesthetic from them, in the best way possible.

Sean Godsey: Thoron’s design comes from–do you know Indie Game: The Movie?–at one point in that one of the creator talks about wanting to make stuff that they’d want to have played when they were a teenager. So the original Thoron design from ten years ago is like Aqua Teen Hunger Force meets Mega Man. He really feels like a guest character who would show up on Aqua Teen. His armor is like Mega Man armor, too. So I guess he really does come out of those things that I loved as a kid–early Adult Swim and video games. Thoron is very directly those two influences mashed together.

Additionally, a lot of the designs are quite economical. Like Thoron is a floating ball, which makes him a lot easier to animate than a character who’s not a floating ball. Barely any characters have any limbs, too, which is the result of how I’m really the only animator on this. We had a background artist, Harry Bolero, who made all the backgrounds as well as any background animation, like if there’s lava, for example. I was the only one doing the character animation, so it was kind of important that the tasks were doable for me. If you look closely at the designs then you’ll see that barely anyone has arms, no one has fingers, no one has legs…That also lends itself to how these are all aliens and creatures that can really look however. It kind of works without looking cheap or purposefully simplistic. They’re all just character models that are easy to spin around, make their eyes move, and talk. The eyes and the mouth are really doing a lot of the animation work. 

Daniel Kurland: Thoron works well with the whole conquering planet angle that’s quickly established. If more Thoron were to happen, would you want to break from this formula and go in a different direction with it all?

Nic Collins: I think the fun of Thoron is that the main inspiration comes from Sean and I really wanting to tell a story about someone who is suffering and trying to make it. In our case, that meant surviving as freelance artists and filmmakers. A lot of those frustrations and experiences is in Thoron and it’s no coincidence that he’s a freelance conqueror. I think what would probably happen if Thoron were to continue is that it and the character would continue to mirror our own lives in certain ways. Sean just got engaged, so maybe that leads to something. I have more work coming in now than when we first made Thoron, so maybe that leads to something where Thoron is engaged, getting work, and he’s not struggling and miserable anymore. I think it’d be fun to just put as much of our truths and reality into the story. At the same time, the drama of this character–who is riddled with anxiety and body issues–which is kind of hinted at in these shorts. 

Sean Godsey: That monster with all of those eyes who thinks he’s fat is something that we’ve wanted to do for years. Our project that got into SXSW is strangely enough three longer shorts that are tied together and one of them was almost this creature thing that’s akin to that. So it’s really satisfying to finally get into that, but to also make it an intergalactic monster.

Nic Collins: I really got into the old Conan the Barbarian Marvel comics during the start of COVID. That was also such an influence on Thoron. We wanted to do this sword-and-sandal fantasy story, in an intergalactic setting, but about being a freelancer. We have a ton of episode ideas and characters that we want to play around with. One of our biggest influences is The Venture Bros. and how they created this massive ongoing mythology. We certainly have a mythology in our minds with Thoron and we’d love to continue that story. There’s a lot to play with there.

Daniel Kurland: Now that these Thoron shorts are out, do you have plans to further explore these characters or their world? Would you like this to become a full series? Would more shorts suffice? What are your plans?

Sean Godsey: Yeah, we’d love to make more Thoron and to make it even longer would be the best. All you have to do is add a cast of core characters around Thoron to make it work in a 22-minute format. We actually have a pitch packet that’s worked all of that stuff out already in terms of giving him a crew to bounce off of, but maintain an episodic quality. It was important for us to set every episode in very different conditions. It’s three segments, smashed together, but it was still important for us to highlight the unlimited nature of this universe and how each planet will be radically different. One is snow, one is a lava planet, another is a mushroom planet, while another takes them to space. I’d love to see more of the infinite places that Thoron can go.

Nic Collins: I think a half-hour–22-minute–show would be best for Thoron. We have a whole format and extra characters–like a horrible roommate–worked out for it. For me personally, every time I watch a show that’s an hour-long I’m left wishing that it was a half-hour. That’s my favorite format. Have you seen Netflix’s Beef? It’s the best thing that I’ve seen in a long time and a bit part of that is because it’s only a half-hour and doesn’t tie itself down with filler. It’s tight, lean, and it’s forced to move and move. That’d be ideal for Thoron.

Daniel Kurland: Do either of you have a favorite sequence from these shorts and was there a moment that was particularly challenging during production?

Sean Godsey: I think my favorite part is still when Thoron quits, which is the original–the first–thing that we ever made for Thoron. It’s what’s closest to the original shorts before Adult Swim got involved. That scene is really the only part of it that survived and I love it. Just the idea of quitting from this huge and frightening boss is really funny to me. Gay did these amazing backgrounds for it too, so it just looks cool on top of everything else.

In terms of challenges, I think it was really just that it took so long because of the skeleton crew we had for this production. In my mind everything only takes a week or month, but then a year later we’re finally finishing Thoron. It was just a lot of work for a few people to do.

Nic Collins: It’s tough because “I Quit” was the first Thoron piece we made and it’s hard not to like. I think my favorite thing is probably something in the Cave of the Blue Obsidian because it’s just so close to Conan, which was in my blood and in my brain. I’m so grateful for it all in the first place and this incredible team between myself, Sean, and Harry Bolero. It’s unbelievable that we were able to create these huge worlds and do all of this online and through virtual programs. Thoron just floating up to the top of the Cave of the Blue Obsidian and just losing his mind really encapsulates the big sword-and-sandal epic Conan vibe. That’s my favorite part.